The end of S&S cooperation with Nautor
I think that almost everybody knows the history of the beginning of the Nautor Compny working with S&S.
The reasons of stopping this cooperation are almost unknown to me.
Opinions and facts would be welcome, thank you

Hi, consider my text below more as a rumor than a fact! Some Years ago while I was still in the dreaming phase of buying one of these beautiful Yachts I saw an US advert of a S&S Swan 57 saying something like that

"This 57 for sale is one of the first two 57:s that ended the co-operation between Nautor and S&S. Those two first hulls were too flexible and Nautor had to strengthen them a lot to meet their strict requirements. S&S did not bother with the complaints Nautor made about those obvious faults in this design and it ment the end of their co-operation"

True or not, it was a reputable dealer although not an authorized one.

IHe, 431-12 "CAID"

Dear All,

I talked several times about this matter with Olin Stephens himself and Mitch G. Neff, and they gave their own opinion.

They are not with us anymore and I don't want to talk on words told by someone who is not able to reply.

Could we just say that they worked as an extraordinary team for nearly 20 years, and things changed over this time, maybe S&S Inc. and Nautor had different opinion on building boats.

That was a fantastic era, quoting Rod Stephens words, they build "...the most beautiful production boats of all the times...". The era is now over, and we are lucky enough to be proud conservator of the most important piece of modern yachting!

Fair winds!

matteo (38/067 Only You)

Sorry to be Off Topic (OT in forum jargon), but this reminds my youth when we all wondered why Paul, John, George & Ringo decided to break up...
Their songs are still the best in the human horizon!
...like our S&S Swans...

Daniele, 411/004

Dear All,

I talked several times about this matter with Olin Stephens himself and Mitch G. Neff, and they gave their own opinion.

They are not with us anymore and I don't want to talk on words told by someone who is not able to reply.

Could we just say that they worked as an extraordinary team for nearly 20 years, and things changed over this time, maybe S&S Inc. and Nautor had different opinion on building boats.

That was a fantastic era, quoting Rod Stephens words, they build "...the most beautiful production boats of all the times...". The era is now over, and we are lucky enough to be proud conservator of the most important piece of modern yachting!

Fair winds!

matteo (38/067 Only You)

Oh, Only you,
Matteo Salamon best kept secret......:)

Dear Friends
The story IHe refers to can be found at
http://www.jordanyachts.com/archives/1568
I would, however, consider it to be much fiction, with some grains of fact. This comment is based on being in the backrooms of the yard at the time.
The cooperation between S&S and Nautor continued also after the first two Swan 57's, as evidenced by the five Swan 76 built between 1979 and 1981, actually the biggest of all S&S Swans.
In 1982 when the new Swan 46 project was conceived S&S was still asked to provide their proposal together with the two other yacht designers already involved with the yard, but neither S&S nor Ron Holland succeeded, instead German Frers was chosen.
Meanwhile Olin had stepped back in 1978 at 70, and left the office in other hands. Rod continued after that with his inspections, but it was clear that he did not rush around the world as before. After checking the build of the Swan 76's he decided that it was preferable to do less travelling.
This means that S&S lost their two front figures within a fairly short time span, and there were already new designers around challenging them with new thinking. This evolution could be seen on the race courses, which caused pressure from prospective buyers, and the yard choose to engage Ron Holland 1977, mainly because of his successful IMP.
The structural problems encountered by some 57's participating in the disastrous 1979 Fastnet Race was probably the fact behind the talk about the two first hulls. The yard had by that time delivered 22 hulls and decided to reinforce them all.
Kind regards
Lars

Dear Lars,
thank you, you have described so well the scenario of those times. They were, too, the times of the much controversial transition from RORC rules to IOR rules.

I would like to add that the winner of the 1979 Fastnet Race was a S&S design, Tenacious, from Palmer & Johnson, now War Baby.

Many of the Swan 47’, as Toscana, finished the race and had little or no damages. Many of the boats with spade rudder lost their rudder. This tragedy is still haunting Ron Holland, the designer of Golden Delicious and Imp, the winners in the ’95 and in ’97 editions of the Fastnet.
Matteo (Grampus 47/16)

My knowledge of this at the time was that when Nautor announced the relationship with Ron Holland, they said something like they would use Ron Holland to design the smaller boats and S&S would continue with the larger ones - this was at the time that they announced the 76.

I know through the years and tough races that some structural issues have had to be dealt with, but having bought our 1981 Swan 76 last year right after a round the world passage and previously, many atlantic crossings she appears to have no signs of any hull, keel and deck movement.

Gavin

This is an interesting thread to me, but after reading the posts so far, I figure things change, and this relationship did too - but what is more disturbing to me is the apparent abandonment of the S&S Swans, the basis for the yard's reputation, and still the most numerous and widespread of its ambassadors. I still don't understand this most recent twist, and wonder what, if anything, we could collectively do about it?

Fair Winds, and happy Thanksgiving to those who will celebrate this week -

Geoff, Corazon, 411 #41

Yes I agree that they are two very different issues. I don't know anyone at Nautor these days but I do wonder whether a private conversation with Mr Ferragamo might be a good idea as I can't think it is in his interests either to have a division like this.

After all, he was the person who restored the S&S Swan No.1. Gavin

Speaking as an owner of an S&S Swan and a business man, the new owners of Natuor Swan have lost the understanding of the brands values and have tried to take the product into a different direction. Unlike Oyster who stuck to the game plan of building high specification crusing yachts. Oyster still listen to what owners want rather than try to take the product to a different place.

One suggestion which will not be universly popular, is that the attention to detail in the fitout towards the end of S&S era begain to suffer as the number of yachts in build increased. Not something Rod would have been too happy about.  It happens to a lot of business's demand goes up and the organisation struggles to cope and maintain standards.

 For me one of the attractions in asking Ron Holland to the London Dinner would be to ask his thoughts on the matter and how he felt he improved on the S&S designs.          

John B

411 010