New auto pilot for Swan 47
I am considering replacing my Neco auto pilot. Has anyone any experience of fitting a hydraulic type auto pilot eg NKE to a 47? The quadrant is in a very restricted space, I wonder if it is possible to extend the quadrant aft of the rudder stem to create an alternative lever so the hydraulics are directly below the helmsman seat?
Any advice and guidance welcome.

I am not very competent regarding this matter, anyway I had a Neco and when looking for a new autopilot, I decided to choose for a rotary drive (mechanical electric engine) and not for a hydraulic actuator, which looked to me more subject to assistance. The aluminum basis of the old engine existed already. So I decided for a raytheon spx 30 with rotary drive: most probably it less expensive than the NKE. It has a gyroscopic function and it is doing a perfect job, low consumption and very precise also when the boat is rock and rolling. A very big improvement, compared to Neco. In case you can have good local electrical assistance, you might decide to have a new electronic system and keep the old engine of neco as actuator, this engine is very sturdy (although high in electricity consuming). And you may spare some cost.

As most of you already know I am a shameless supporter of the Neco autopilot but I do understand that sometimes there are good reasons for upgrading it.
One of the reason can be the need for a smarter control unit, another is the need for a more powerful actuator; both may be sensible reasons.
In short: my opinion is that if someone decides to upgrade the actuator in order to do a job really worth the effort and good for many years to come, one should go for a servo that operates directly on the quadrant, possibly an hydraulic one.
The technical reasons are lengthy to be explained here but are widely discussed in the internet.

Daniel, 411/004 (still steered by a Neco NM692)

Hi Rob and everyone,

we had an ancient autohelm 7000 driving a type 2 rotary drive helming our 47 around the world with hardly any trouble. The sprocket / chain gear ratio seems to be still the same, as on the previous Neco, as someone has put on a bronce 11 teeth sprocket on the autohelm drive, which is not original, probably coming from the old Neco drive, but we don‘t know for sure. All this was done around 1990…
The power consumption was altogether reasonable, averaging 2, max 4 Amp/12V. The drive unit seemed to cope well, even with the worst conditions.

We had always felt though, that some more redundancy might be called for, as we carried no spare autopilot, and had no wind vane either.

Because of that, we added a NKE autopilot package last season, wired to the old autohelm type 2 rotary drive. We can now switch from the old autohelm 7000 to the new NKE, and back. We also bought a second rotary drive unit as a spare. Changing the drive unit is some 20 minutes awkward work, but possible, even in unpleasant conditions, if you are not seasick…

The NKE worked great last season. The gyro controlled unit steers far more precise than the old autohelm, especially in a blow downwind, a pleasure to watch, a bit humiliating though, as it does a far better job compared to ourselves.

Best regards to everybody, Britta and Michael / SY VERA / 47/013

The old Neco was built for commercial boats like trawlers working every day and on my 47, Black Tie, we had a modern control unit but kept the old Neco motor. It was working fine after 30 years and many miles. Gavin

Hello Rob and All,

When installed my present autopilot - a B&G with a linear drive - I was advised not to go for a hydraulic one since ones looses the feeling of driving through the sea when one is hand steering.The installation is easy and the cabling is strait forward. I am not sure about the hydraulic aspect since I have no experience with that. However, what I can say for sure is that the B&G has been doing a fabulous job for 10 years in most conditions in the dreadful north sea and steering like a master in all points of sails.

Cheers//Philippe
(Farouche 47/050)

Just a few additional comments following the above interventions.

The advantages of a servo acting directly on the quadrant are:
i) it does not stress the rudder system cables, and
ii) it may work as a backup in case of failure of the cables or whatever controls them.

A properly installed hydraulic servo on the quadrant will not affect at all, in standby mode, the feeling of a manual steering system which still acts through the cables.

There are very good and understandable reasons for choosing compromises, first of all the cost, but I am still convinced of my statement and I would be very happy to be contradicted on technical bases.

Daniel, 411/004

Daniele, what you say is very clear and reasonable.
Do not forget that my old Neco is still resting in my personal museum of the no more used objects, and he would be very happy to change air and find a new master, with a reasonable offer to me....;)
FV !!!!!
Matteo

Matteo, Thank you so much for your thoughts, I can see the attraction of keeping the existing gearbox which connects to the wheel via chain.But I understand spare parts are very difficult to come by now, hence my interest in a complete new system. Clearly the modern systems seem more able to steer a course to the wind and varying sea conditions. As always, these decisions involve compromise. Best regards, Rob.

Hi Daniel, Thank you for this. I sense our instincts are the same, but I do not have the experience of making the change. I agree, it seems logical for the power to be direct to the quadrant - hence my idea of adding a lever to the aft of the quadrant where there would be more physical space for hydraulic ram etc.. Best regards, Rob.

Rob,
sorry for the misunderstanding but when I wrote "quadrant" I actually meant a strong lever solidly united to the rudder shaft. It could be the quadrant itself or any other arm.

Daniel, 411/004

Britta and Michael, so helpful to hear your comments, thank you! I had not considered mixing old with new. I do want the better performance of the modern system, and I now have to digest the comments which you and others have kindly posted.
Electricity consumption is a real issue, and I am very impressed by your low figures - I havent properly checked but I am sure my Neco draws in excess of 10 amps. What I do know is our boats lend themselves to balance which other yachts do not manage, and therefore excellent results should be possible with a good auto pilot. Best regards, Rob.

Daniel, yes exactly - agreed, Rob

Thanks Gavin, your views suggest I shouldnt worry too much about the old Neco gearbox. Have you ever had to replace the electrical components in the switch system? My engineer/electrician re-set up mine last year and it has been more accurate, but he did say he thought so many of the components are now redundant, and future failures would probably mean complete replacement. ( He spoke with Mr Coventry? the Neco guru). Best regards, Rob

Hello Phillipe, Thank you for this. Can you set your system to sail a prescribed angle off the wind, and if so, does it have a preferred angle- does this affect your sail trimming etc?
Best regards, Rob

...he should have spoken to me... the second Neco guru of the World!
:-)

Daniel (aka "the Neco-monomaniacal"), 411/004

Rob, others on this forum obviously know more about how these work. We just had a small sized Shipmate control unit recessed in the coaming connected to the Neco/compass but I didn't have the wind angle wired but could have done. Gavin

Hi all and in particular Daniel,

the Neco Guru is exactly what is called for! We have the Neco system up and running beautifully - last year a friend of mine took it apart and replaced some of the components, namely the potentiometer that lets us set the course. May other products be more modern, less power-consuming, whatever. Ours is cool!
Daniel ... we don't have any wind-angle equipment. Can you advise in what would be needed to install it?

Best, Martin
Age of Swan, 48/039

Hi Martin,
I sent a personal message to you but here I like to add a few comment to what was written before.

Most of the parts that need replacement after, say, 20-30 years in the Neco are easily found in electronic stores and are rather cheap. The relays included.

Only one part that sometimes fails after so many years cannot be found new in electronic stores, namely the synchro transformer. This is the device that sits behind the large knob for setting the course in the Control Unit. It is an avionic component that, as far as I know, no other autopilot uses but, luckily enough, can be found on e-bay in surplus army stores. Its cost is about the same as two new relays (indeed the latter should be replaced once in awhile).

Daniel, 411/004

Dear Rob

Rather late on this post, however the previous owner of my 41 fitted an Autohelm linear drive directly on the quadrant. A stainless strap was bolted across the quadrant, with the linear drive connected to the centre of the strap. quite a neat installation, and still possible to crawl underneath the quadrant to get into the stern compartment. Power/stroke/ratio seemed fine, autopilot works well under all conditions. I think the drive was a type 2.

regards Cosmo Little

Thanks Cosmo, this is the sort of thing I had in mind, it just so very difficult to get to that area in the 47. I think this will stay in the thinking box for a while!!
Rob