Trim tab and locking wheel dimensions for 43
Dear All,

Somewhere along the line, the trim tab and locking wheels for my 43 were lost. As I continue my restoration of my boat, I would like to add this dimension back, which means that I need to have new wheels fabricated. Does anyone have plans for the wheels or can someone provide me with specifications?

Thank you.

Chris Mabel's Casse Tete

Hi Chris,

I don't have plans or specifications, but Firebrand II does have a working trim tab along with the original wheels (see below).  If it is of any help, I can provide you with photographs and dimensions of the main components.  If necessary, I can also look at disassembling and providing dimensions of the shaft and wheel hubs.

Best regards
Andrew
Firebrand II (43/041)  

Dear Andrew
The steering pedestal is unusually at the forward end of the cockpit. How are the steering cables led here, aft to the rudder along the cockpit floor, and down to the bottom and forward to the tab?
Best regards
Lars

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for you gracious offer. I see that this task may be a little more complicated than I originally envisaged! Before you go to any trouble for me, let me examine what I have. I am hoping that the wheel dimensions will be sufficient but until I remove the steering wheel, I won't know if modifications have been made. The picture you provided helps - thank you.

I may not be able to address this issue for several weeks since I am traveling but will write again once I have more information.

Chris

Hi Lars,

Yes Firebrand II has a modified cockpit layout.  This appears to have been done when she was originally built for Denis Miller.  The steering pedestal is forward and the primary winches are inside the cockpit.  Apparently, Denis Miller's original Firebrand, which was a timber 43ft S&S from the early 1960s had a similar layout.  Interestingly the original Firebrand is still sailing today. 

Yes the steering cables run aft just under the cockpit floor back to the rudder.  The trim tab cables run down under the floor and forward to the trim tab.

Best regards
Andrew
Firebrand II (43/041)

Hi Chris,

No problem.  It is relatively easy to take a few measurements and photographs.  These should give you a pretty good idea of what might be involved.  Hopefully, most of the internal workings are still there.  Otherwise it could be a fairly significant undertaking. 

The main dimensions of the wheels are as follows:

Outer wheel (rudder)    770mm dia (approx 2ft 6in)
Middle wheel (trim tab) 620mm dia (approx 2ft)
Inner wheel (locking)    290mm dia (approx 1ft)

The outer wheels appear are made from tube with a diameter of around 23mm.  The tube for the inner wheel is slightly thinner at around 20mm diameter.  The wheels have six spokes, as shown in photo 1, and are dished so that they are in the same plane, as shown in photo 2.

The wheels drive three concentric shafts.  The outer shaft drives the rudder via the rear sprocket and chain, shown in photo 3.  The middle shaft drives the trim tab via the forward sprocket and chain.  There are also two clutches; the first between the rudder shaft and the trim tab shaft, and the second between the trim tab shaft and the steering pedestal.  The locking shaft can be wound forward to lock the trim tab-pedestal clutch, effectively fixing the trim tab  in place.  It can be wound back to lock the trim tab-rudder clutch (as shown), effectively locking the trim tab to the rudder and enhancinhg low speed manouvrability.  Or, it can be left in-between allowing the trim tab to be moved independently.

I hope this has been of some help.  Let me know if you would like me to get more precise measurements.

Best regards
Andrew
Firebrand II (43/041)

Dear Andrew,

Absolutely a great help! Thank you. And this information has inspired me to take a look at the pedestal in the near future. IF one of the former owners has removed the mechanisms, I may go a different route.

Thank you.

Chris

Dear Andrew,

I have attached pictures of my steering gear set-up.  Based upon what I see in you photos, i am concerned that the main gear rod may have been shortened.  I was unable to remove the cap that holds the steering wheel in place and will need to do that in the future.  In my brief examination, I see that I will need to remove the pedestal and work hard to bring it back to life.

All comments are welcomed.

Chris Mabel's Casse Tete  43/003

Chris:

There exists just one drawing of the steering shaft/spindle. It is a section drawing of the entire length of the steering shaft/spindle. According to the professor (when I inquired about more detail drawings) there aren't any except this one drawing.

The drawing is just enough to understand how the shaft works and that is it. No dimensions.

Your photo of the round headed machine screws (that have been inserted at a slight angle into shaft flange) appear to be holding the clutch plate and the second shaft flange together so the steering shaft can function as one continuous unit. This modification must have been done when the trim tab feature was de-activated.

You can see some additional images in the Maintenance section of this site under the Swan 43 heading.

Regards,

Hiro

Dear Hiro,

Thannk you for your post - I had neglected to select the "notification" buttom and just saw this note.  I will look into the maintenance area - i am hoping that the "drawing" to which you referred is there.  i am lucky to know of an excellent machine shop close by; the owner does very sophisticated work on racing cars and boats and is willing to take on my small jobs.  This may be a larger job but I think he will be able to figure out what I cannot!

Yesterday, I removed the fuel tank to get at the large sheaves located just behind the tank; they are totally seized so it was a good decision.  I it will also make it possible to clean the area and repair the wood around it.  Pictures are attached.

One question for you and the group, especially the Professor:  what type of material should I use to support the tank?

Fair Winds,

Chris

Sheaves

fuel tank removed

Pictures in previous post were 90 degrees off.

Chris:

I do not think the drawing of the trim tab shaft is in the Maintenance section of the web site.

Let me see if I can scan the dwg. and email it to you.

Are the other trim tab sheaves in good nick?
Does your boat have the trim tab quadrant?
Also make sure you check the trim tab stuffing box. I had a bad leak there and it is in an awkward location to repair.

Regards,

Hiro

Dear Hiro,

Thank you for your note.  Answers to your questions follow.

Are the other trim tab sheaves in good nick? - Some are missing and the two large ones you can see in the picture I provided are seized.  I will need to do some work here.  My goal is to get set up so I can make the trim tab operable, not necessarily get it fully functional this season.  having said that, Since I need to remove the pedestal, it may all happen sooner than later.

 
Does your boat have the trim tab quadrant?  Yes, the quadrant is in place and, I think, working.   
Also make sure you check the trim tab stuffing box. I had a bad leak there and it is in an awkward location to repair - I can see that the stuffing box could be a tough job.

Thank you for looking for the diagram - I will look for it in my email.

With warm regards,

Chris

Dear Members,

I sent a package of material, including pictures from this thread and the diagram supplied by Hiro, to the machinist who has helped me with other projects on the boat; he replied that, yes he could help and yes he understood how the mechanism worked and that he would help me.  He also know of an individual who can fabricate the wheels.  Now, this may happen soon or it may happen next winter, but I think it will happen.

Thank you for all the help and please look for updates.

Chris