Anchor and chain problems
Hello friends,
I like to submit to your attention a few questions regarding the anchor–chain system on a 411.
First I describe my system:
anchor: 18kg (36lb) CQR,
chain: 90m (~180´) of 10mm (~3/8") size,
windlass: Lofrans Tigres (horizontal, over–deck) with a 1000W motor.
The chain enters the deck and, after passing through a rubber vertical hawse pipe about 50cm (~20") long, 5cm (2") inner diameter, drops into the locker which, in turn, is approximately 1m (3´) deep and upside–down–pyramidal in shape.

First problem: the windlass power seems to be barely sufficient to lift the anchor. I have the choice to upgrade the motor of the windlass with a 1200W unit or to replace completely the windlass with, possibly, a vertical under deck one. Useless to say that the two possibilities are quite different in work and cost but the vertical windlasses are known to be nicer and better. Notwithstanding, if someone confirms that an increase of 20% of power is enough, I will consider it seriously.

Second problem: the chain jams. After lifting a certain amount of chain, it piles up to the lower end of the hawse pipe and closes it jamming, in turn, the windlass. The only way to avoid the problem is to have someone down at the locker distributing the chain to the sides as it drops.
My suspicion is that the lower opening of the hawse pipe is too small and should be widened or/and sloped but I like to hear advice.

Thank you in advance for any comment or advice you may give
Daniel, 411-004

Daniel

Hi Lars,
I was hoping in your reply...
As always you give great suggestions.
I will check voltage drop and, yes, I always keep the engine running for power.
My forepeak is as in the original design, just in front of the fore-cabin. It is divided vertically into two parts by a wooden shelf about 50cm under the deck. The shelf is essentially useless because, on it, there are only few things that can be placed differently. The chain tube goes from the deck through the shelf and stops there. The thing I could do to keep part of the shelf is substitute the tube with an upside-down cone, possibly in s/s, in order to permit an higher free chain drop. The upper opening fitting the windlass chain hole while the lower opening diameter could be something like the 0.33m you cite.

Regarding the box, I perfectly understand what you mean because just one month ago such a jam happened to me. I just wonder if the size you mention is right; my impression is that 90m of 10mm chain are an awful lot and I am surprised that they will fit in a box 0.33x0.33x0.9 m^3.
Thank you and regards
Daniel, 411-004

Hi Daniel,

I have a Lofrans 1200W vertical axis anchor winch, with a 100amp trip. The cable is thick, 50sq mm, from the invoice which I am looking at, though I have not checked it. If I run the engine, a Volvo 55HP Penta, at say 1500 rpm, I have never had a problem with raising the anchor. Indeed I got some very heavy chain caught over the anchor in the British Virgin Islands and the winch managed to pull up the chain to the water line where I was able to unhitch the anchor from the chain.

As regards the anchor cable, and I only have about 50m of cable plus a further 50m of anchorplait. Yes the cable does form a cone , which when you heel capsizes. This almost invariably causes the chain to jamb when it is being lowered on the winch, so I now have someone down below laying the cable, a very messy job, to stop the cone or mound of cable forming. I find that if I have laid out much more than 15m of cable I need to go through this laying the cable procedure.

The next problem is that you need to blok the hawse pipe, the hole down which the anchor chain falls when offshore. I have made up a wooden plug which I attach to the anchor chain and then mastic the plug into the hawse pipe. I only do this on long voyages, typically transocean. The anchor then is unattached from tne anchor cable and needs to be tied down very carefully!

I can only assume that the Professor is Lars Strom himself!

Cheers

Anthony Fawcett

Hello everyone.

This is a really good subject! We have worked on it for the last 15 years, and are almost there....! (41/022)

First a few comments: 90 m of 10mm chain in the nose is a lot of weight: we have 60m. 18kg anchor is on the smallish size: we have a 20kg spade.

Now about modifying the anchor locker we have built a "dog-house " on top of the "shelf" which is 150mm high, and reduced the chain box to 400x400 mm which is probably still a bit too wide. (350x350 as stated by Lars is probably right). Now a new problem arose: the pipe coming from the windlass as to come in the middle of the box. We used 50mm exhaust pipe.

Last: he pad originally mounted by Nautor is very large and situated at the bottom of the chain box. This makes a very nice point to block the chain when it fall down. We replaced it by a Wichard folding pad situated at the top of othe box.

Best explanations: see picture included or in next message.

Although I have a Swan 40 I thought you might want to hear about my different solution.      I wanted as much chain and rope warp as possible and decided that the chain locker right forward was too small, also I didn't want all that weight so far forward.

I fitted a horizontal, low profile Lewmar windlass on deck as far  back as the coachroof would allow and sacrificed the forward sail locker for the 45 metres of chain.     The chain drops vertically through a pipe which screws on to the windlass from below.  This pipe (about 6 cm diameter, I can measure it if you want) goes down to the level of the folding bunk (I had to make a small cutout in the bunk).   The sail locker was already divided into two parts.   The section further back now contains 100 metres of rope warp spliced to the chain, so I am ready for nearly every tidal range and weather conditions at anchor.

The windlass has a canvas "hat" to stop water dripping into the forepeak.   On a long passage or in very heavy weather I unscrew the pipe from below, detach the chain from the anchor and drop it into the sail locker, then screw on a watertight cap.

Nothing is perfect but I am 95% satisified with this solution

Of course I am very interested in reading comments applying to all similar boats and I thank you all very much.

I am starting to understand that my purchase of 90m of 10mm chain carried out just one month ago was an overkill! I might decide to give up a few tenths and go for a longer rope warp. Any advice on the kind, dimension of the rope? And on the kind of chain-rope splice?
As I am not familiar with such an arrangement I am curious to hear what you are supposed to do when the last chain link disengages from the gipsy wheel (borbotin) and the rope starts... what? Running freely pulled by the load of the chain? Or what else?

Daniel, 411-004

Dear all

To move the windlass further aft improves weight distribution and chainbox capacity, but then some sort of removable protection for the teak deck is needed under the chain. Could be a wooden or plastic plank with a groove.

The newer windlasses have gypsies which can take both chain and rope, and cope with the combination

Lars

I can confirm that the Lewmar windlass works perfectly with both chain and rope and also no problem when the splice goes through.  I confess I am not very good with splices so a professional at the Walsted yard did it.

I forgot to say that I have fitted a "sacrificial" teak plank under the chain run on deck.    Since the chain drops into the forecabin under the bunks I also I have a sea water deck wash located near the anchor so no mud, weed or other smelly material goes into the sail locker.

Agree and interesting subject. 

First splicing.  Have a look at the following webiste.  http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/technical_info/anchorplait_splicing_guide.htm

Helpful and informative, although I will be the first to admit I usually get me father to do it.  He is much more adept at splicing.

Secondly we also suffer similar problems; jammed chain and water ingress and will be this winter implementing a different solution.  We have some space between the forward pipe cots and a very small internal bulkhead.  In this space sits the "little" chain locker, with its top just under the pipe cots.   We intend to raise the current aft partial bulkhead that is the aft bulkhead of the chain locker, up to the deckhead.  Not sure yet if we will introduce an partial "decks" in there or not, but the intent is to increase volume of the chain locker and allow us to shorten the hawser pipe. 

As for water ingerss, we have found a big sponge shoved down the hawser pipe against the chain works surprisingly well.  Not elegnat or ideal, but it works.  Ideally I would make the new chain locker watertight and have an overboard discharge, but I think that will be too much effort for too little gain.  Besides the 101 other jobs that are on the list.