Removeble Staysail or Double Furling headsails

Can anybody share experences of sailing with double furling headails?           By this I mean having an inner furling headsail set just behind the genoa furling system. This carries what in the Uk is called a Solent gybe, used when tacking frequently and or in stronger wind strengths.

I currently use a moveable babystay on which I set a staysail in stronger winds which works well but does need to be set up by going onto the foredeck. 

For the double furling system do you need to strengthen the attachment point?

John

Dear John

  Last winter I fitted a second roller furler to my Swan 41. When I bought the boat, there was provision for a moveable stay (8mm) which could be set up on the stem just behind the genoa furler using a backstay tensioner. There were no effective heavy weather sails supplied with the boat, only a stretched out old genoa which had obviously come from a smaller boat, and a storm jib. We did try the storm jib last summer in a gale, however its area was really too small for force 7 to 8. The moveable stay was parked on a deck fitting by the mast when not in use.

  Last winter I changed the moveable stay to a continuous line roller furler and ordered a new high cut jib for the wind range 6 to 9. The furler with its stay could still be parked by the mast when not in use. Earlier this summer during a 2 week cruise we had the opportunity of trying this system in winds up to 7. We started off with the new jib hoisted on the furler, rolled up and parked by the mast. The theory was that we could move the stay to the stem head when if the wind became too strong for the genoa. The first problem we found was that due to the considerable weight of the stay, furler, and jib, it was extremely difficult to get it tight enough so the pin could be inserted on the tensioner. This was overcome with a portable tackle ( handy billy). However once the jib furler was in position and tensioned, there was a reluctance to move it again, and it stayed on the stem head for the rest of the cruise. This meant we could only tack the genoa by rolling it right in each time, but we got very good at this, and it was no problem.

 In terms of performance, the jib set much better than the rolled up genoa in winds stronger than 5, especially to windward. During a downwind leg we found we could unroll both jib and genoa with the mainsail furled and run under twin headsails without poles. This was remarkably effective.

If you fit such a system, consider the following points carefully:

a) use a tensioner with plenty of power. It is quite difficult to get the movable stay tight enough. The main backstay tensioner can be slacked off to help with this. I was quite concerned that we would end up with the movable stay very tight , and the main forestay slack. In this case the mast shock loads would be taken on the movable stay which might lead to its failure. I never really resolved this point. I suppose in theory the movable say should be 10mm, the same size as the main forestay, with equally strong fittings.

b) The jib should be cut so it sheets outside the shrouds. We thought we could sheet the jib inside the cap shroud and outside the lowers. This worked in port, but in practice the sheet chafed on the cap shroud and we finally had to sheet it outside all 3 shrouds.

c) If the furler is parked by the mast, check that there is no significant chafe on the mast fittings at the top. Due to the weight of the furler, it always moves around somewhat in a sea.

  Generally I was pleased with the new system, and may make a few small adjustments for next season. It overcomes the real problem with the Swan 41, ie a huge genoa and small mainsail. The next time I am on the boat I will take some pictures of the jib furler in parked and in use positions.

regards Cosmo Little

Dear John,
For our race “Transat Classique” Douarnenez-Agadir-Saint Barthelemy, I installed on my Swan 41 “Kallinira” a second roller with a trinquette of 35 m2. We appreciated this system starting from 25-30 knots of wind, including run wind. The only problem is the passage of large genoa during changing tack in light air.

Dear Yvon,

  Your second furler is attached much further aft at the deck than mine, which is attached to a deckplate bolted to the large stainless stem fitting. I like the look of yours, as there is less interference between the genoa and jib.

  Could you please give some details of the deck fitting, also a photo if possible. How do you tension the stay?

regards Cosmo Little

Dear Cosmolittle,
Attached a photo and a picture showing details of deck fitting of my second furling.
Tension of stay is always the same.
Best regards
Yvon

Dear Comos and Yvon, many thanks for the information. I was out sailing last week and set the genoa and staysail like a true cutter rig. By not sheeting in too hard on the 135% Genoa it seemed to work quite well. My staysail is sheeted inside of the shrouds. It seems a number of options are available all with plus and minus points.

1. Carry on with moving baby stay forward and flying hanked on staysail. Disadvantage is that you have to go on deck in heavy weather to set. Advantage is that you stop the mast from flexing and inverting. Can do a dip pole gybe. No problem tacking the genoa when staysail not set. ( Could set a yankee instead of genoa)

2. Fix a furling system at the point where staysail is set. Advantage is that it is easy to use. Disadvantagis that it is set perminantly and the sail area is small. Tacking the genoa can be problematic. No dip pole gybe. (Could set a yankee instead of genoa) 

3. Fix second furling system behind genoa. Advantage ease of use, larger second sail area, fly two headsails down wind. Disadavantage, no dip pole gybe, reduced support for the mast when in stronger winds.  Carrying more weight aloft all the time. (I suppose you could leave the baby stay in place)         

I suppose in the final analysis it is all about the type of sailing you do, the no of crew you carry and the cost.

Dear all

There are some practical problems associated with two forestays close together and a sail carried on one of them. The sail load will cause that stay to sag and elongate, while the other stay remains straight.

The straight stay will prevent tensioning of the sagged stay with the backstay tensioner, and individual tensioning is required for the sail carrying stay to get it tight.

For a Swan 41 the distance to be taken up by such a tensioner is in the order of 2 inches.

Best regards

Lars