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| S&S Swan General - Rudder extension on 411s |
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Join Date: 01 February 2007
Posts: 234 |
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Rudder extension on 411s I have just been looking through the orignal Swan drawings supplied with my yacht and notice that the end of the rudder is level with the end of the skeg. Yet on my yacht the rudder is longer. Do other owners have this change also? Was it a Swan initiated change from the original based on the performance of the first few yachts? John B |
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Join Date: 19 July 2007
Posts: 66 |
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John. Yes the rudder on our 411 (hull 042) is also extended below the skeg. I was led to believe that this was a later alteration, and not original, however I would be interested to hear otherwise. Paul Bond |
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Join Date: 29 January 2007
Posts: 1022 |
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Dear John, |
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Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 461 |
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Regarding 411-004, I can confirm that rudder and skeg are as in original drawings. |
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Join Date: 01 February 2007
Posts: 234 |
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Guys, please find attached picture. Mine is hull no 010 . It would be good to know when the extension was made in terms of hull no, if it was a Swan modification. Also to so to see some other modifications if not made by Swan. I get some cracking around the mid section pintal, not sure if this is due to the loading or that the bolts just need to be tightened on the straps. I understood one owner had even taken the skeg off and converted to semi balanced rudder.  |
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Join Date: 31 January 2007
Posts: 30 |
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Hi John, Yes, the rudder on my yacht Wotan 411-40 extends below the bottom of the skeg. (See attached photo.) The drawing of the hull which I have in my files dated 30 July 1976 shows the rudder extending to the bottom of the skeg and no further. I visited the S&S office in NY when I sailed over there in 2006. I saw the files containing the original drawings of the 411. I noticed that there were a significant number of design changes, which I would image to be quite normal when developing a yacht and in discussion between the designers and the yard. I saw a lot of telexes from the Professor approving changes! I am aware that a number of 411 owners have extended their rudders or modified their rudders to provide better directional stability running downhill under spinnaker. I personally have never found directional stability a problem, but I do not race. Cheers Anthony  |
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Join Date: 16 May 2009
Posts: 252 |
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I have just been looking through the orignal Swan drawings supplied with my yacht and notice that the end of the rudder is level with the end of the skeg. Yet on my yacht the rudder is longer. Do other owners have this change also? Was it a Swan initiated change from the original based on the performance of the first few yachts? John B Corazon #41 - extended - based on the way she performs, I am satisfied - I wonder where exactly the issues were that led to the mod - was it to gain leverage while heeled? With the rudder so far aft, and not undersized in general, would have thought what was there enough, but to end where i started, she handles well now, so all is well.  |
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Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547 |
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Dear all The Swan 411 rudders were made deeper after receiving feedback from racing owners reporting broaching. The hull number from which this happened may be on record at the yard provided somebody can find this old information. The cracking at half height in the picture indicates that there is too much flexing in the blade at this point. If reinforcement becomes necessary this has to be put outside the straps. Also the Swan 41 and Swan 44 rudders were made deeper at some stage. For the 44 this was done from hull 064 in connection with the change to the heavier keels, and the rudders were made 8 inches deeper. Several 44:s have major modifications to keels and rudders done later according to either Johan Valentijn, Scott Kaufman, or Jim Taylor designs Kind regards Lars |
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Join Date: 01 February 2007
Posts: 234 |
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Lars, can you please explain how you would want to see the re-inforcing done. Make the straps broader Tighten the straps Build up the rudder Thanks |
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Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547 |
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Dear John The recommendation is to reinforce the blade skins locally in the vertical direction. This can be done by adding patches of GRP over the straps each side, bridging the recess. The patches needs to have tapered ends, and can be either glued or laid up in place. They should be straigth continuations of the skin laminate If you can inform which glass reinforcements are available, and the thickness that fits into the strap recess this enables a layup proposal to be made. The thickness, length, and width of the blade below the crack is also important information. Epoxy resin recommended. Kind regards Lars |
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Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 32 |
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Hi, Just for information it seems as I have an enlarged rudder also on my Swan 40 as shown in the attached photo. According to my experience from offshore racing her with spinnaker today, this was obviously needed to avoid broaching during spinnaker sailing. I am however not sure whether this was changed from the beginning by Nautor or after some racing experience by the former owner.
Fair winds, Leif (Sunniva V, Swan 40#36)  |
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Join Date: 30 January 2007
Posts: 11 |
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Join Date: 01 February 2007
Posts: 234 |
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Stefano, my is no 010 so it looks like mine was the first one they changed at the yard. |
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Join Date: 14 March 2008
Posts: 19 |
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Paul
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Join Date: 14 March 2008
Posts: 19 |
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John. Yes the rudder on our 411 (hull 042) is also extended below the skeg. I was led to believe that this was a later alteration, and not original, however I would be interested to hear otherwise. Paul Bond Paul
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