411 engine replacement
Caro professore
i have a Swan 411/22 with a Perkins 4018 that might well be at the end of its life. I have Gori 3 blade folding propeller. I don't want to change exhaust system, propeller shaft, I have a great Balmar alternator, and a Seafrost engine driven compressor for the refrigerator and freezer... I'm not in need of lots of HP - mostly I sail and motor rarely, but there have been times in very bad weather where I was happy to have a strong motor to get back into port. I have had Volvo engines on other boats in the past, the local yard in southern France proposes a Yanmar and what I've read in past forums is the people are choosing Nanni engines. Given my set up which manufaturer and which size engine do you think is the bast choice ? a presto Pippo Lionni

Pippo
You mention Volvo and indicate that the present engine provided sufficient power. Then you could consider the Volvo D2-40.

This should work fine assuming an efficient propeller is used. There is a choice of maximum rpms either providing power reserve in a headwind, or low cruising rpms. The general trend seems, however, to be to put in more power, Volvo D2-55 would be the next choice. There is also a D2-75 but with either of these I would like to point out the importance of the propeller, with much power and an inefficient propeller you are no better off than with less power.
Kind regards
Lars

Pippo and Matteo
Perhaps it would be of interest for the Forum to present predictions for the new installation?
The differences in comparison to the present installation would help you to form an opinion about the suitability for your purposes.
It is assumed the performance in a strong headwind is of particular interest.
For the comparison the following information is required for the present installation:
- max speed and rpm at full throtte in deep and calm water
- max rpm achieved at full throttle at the dock with the yacht held stationary
- if you are interested also in the cruising performance 5 rpm/speed readings to be taken distributed over the cruising speed range
- propeller diameter
Kind regards
Lars

Lars, thanks for your help. I would really like to keep as much of the origional installation as possible (exhaust, propeller, propeller shaft, fridge compressor). The propeller is a GORI 3 blade folding. You mention Volvo but neither Yanmar or Nanni? There must be an optimum engine from each manufacturer than is powerful enough for the head wind and small enough to keep the shaft and propeller. The optimum solution seems around 50hp. Volvo D2-55, Nanni N4-50 or Yanmar SJHSE 53. I am not near my boat, might you have the length, width and engine mount dimensions for the Perkins 4108 with a Borg Warner transmission? I agree that it would be great to have engine performance info for the S&S on the site, unfortunatly, for the moment I am unable to do any of the tests you recommend because the Perkins is limping, but once it's fixed I'd be happy to participate. Thanks again, Pippo

Lars, thanks for your help. I would really like to keep as much of the origional installation as possible (exhaust, propeller, propeller shaft, fridge compressor). The propeller is a GORI 3 blade folding. You mention Volvo but neither Yanmar or Nanni? There must be an optimum engine from each manufacturer than is powerful enough for the head wind and small enough to keep the shaft and propeller. The optimum solution seems around 50hp. Volvo D2-55, Nanni N4-50 or Yanmar SJHSE 53. I am not near my boat, might you have the length, width and engine mount dimensions for the Perkins 4108 with a Borg Warner transmission? I agree that it would be great to have engine performance info for the S&S on the site, unfortunatly, for the moment I am unable to do any of the tests you recommend because the Perkins is limping, but once it's fixed I'd be happy to participate. Thanks again, Pippo

Pippo:

My 411 has a Yanmar 4JHTE 48 hp, runs superb. If you want more details, I have them. Power is ample at moderate revs, original shaft fits, the engine box was made a little wider port side fwd. to make room for a big alternator. My prop is an 18" 3 blade VP MaxProp by PYI. I am not sure about the compressor for the fridge, I don't have one.

Best Regards,

geoff
Corazon, 411 #41

Pippo

I have installed a new engine in 411 042 this winter. I spent some time looking at the alternatives before going with a Beta 50 (which is a Kubota base engine as the Nanni). The price in the UK was very good with a good reputation for support. the gearbox I chose was a PRM 260C2 which is an inline box like the original, which keeps the height of the installation down. the combination of this box and engine is 100mm shorter than the 4108 and allows some flexibility  for the fore and aft positioning. For the exhaust I fitted a riser to the outlet from the engine to prevent water backflow the flexible hose from this was connected to the existing system with little alteration.The engine needed a shallow sump option to clear the bilge.                                                        

The original Gori 20x14 3 blade prop is over pitched for this engine /gearbox combination the engine reaching 2500 revs rather than 2800 giving just under 8 knots indicated. I will live with this for this season.The engine has a 65 amp alternator, which I converted to use the existing "smart" regulator. I may uprate this next year. a 100 amp unit is available with this engine.

I have no mechanical fridge compressor however the space foward of the engine would be adequate to take a compressor or additional alternator.

The installation needed no alteration to the engine box (which was a priority) and has transfomed the yacht under motoring conditions.

If you require any further info or photos I would be pleased to assist.

Regards

 Paul   411 042 Hierro

Pippo and Paul
You both mention that you have a Gori 3-bladed propeller. This propeller is peculiar as it has an overdrive function with increased pitch. The overdrive is always engaged unless you take special precautions to put it into normal pitch. Are you aware of this? The procedure is described in the propeller manual.
Suggest you try what rpm/speed is achieved in normal pitch. The overdrive is heavy for the engine and restricts rpm.
Kind regards
Lars

Lars, i was under the impression that the overdrive function was an option engaged by coming into reverse temporarily while going forward. I checked on the Gori site and the explanation is not clear. I'm not much of a motorer. The Perkins is being inspected to see if its worth fixing or not so I'll try all this out ASAP.

paul, thanks for your post, I'm awaiting the final verdict about the Perkins. I've been looking at the Nanni N4.50 with the TMC260 gear box as the closest solution to the original engine. The Volvo D2-55 is also interesting but seems to be less robust. Sure photos would be great.a presto Pippo

I too fitted a new engine this winter to replace the Perkins 4108.  In the end we went for a Beta 50hp and are very please with the results.

We considered the Yanmar and Volvo but quickly ruled them out on cost (very expensive), engine mount position and complexity.  We also considered the Nanni, which runs the same basic Kubuto block as the Beta, but ruled it our on cost.

We chose the Beta as it is very simple (no turbo and no electronic black boxes), the price was very nice, it had a very similar foot print to the Perkins and is required Beta would machine custom engine mounts for us (nobody else would do this) so it would pick up the exact same engine mounts as the old engine.

We have done about 50 hours on it so far and it has been excellent.  Fuel consumption is much improved to about 3-3.5ltrs/hour.

Fitting the engine was fairly straight forward.  In the end we didn’t go for custom engine mounts, but did find that the metal backing plates were about 4 inches too short in the engine bearers, so had to have extensions made up.  Everything else fitted no problems. 

We also opted for the 2^nd alternator (165ah).  Whilst expensive, I’m pleased we did as it puts a very good charge into the domestic battery bank.

As an aside, you should have no problems selling the old Perkins.  We had several offers for ours, from as far a field as Perth Australia (we are UK!)

Good luck.

Cheers

Adrian