Rudder bonding to rudder stock 47/039
We are currently having major work done to Outrageous where the bonding between hull and cross frames have become detached up to the first stringer.

The surveyor has also noted that the whole leading edge of the rudder sounds hollow as though this has also become detached. We have had no problem with the rudder or steering.

Before we embarg on a major dismantling exercise is there anything anyone knows about the construction and why this area might sound hollow when sounded/tappd with a small hammer.

Many thanks

Mark Stevenson
Outrageous #039

Mark:

I would be more distressed about the loss of bonding between hull and cross members - when you say bonding, I assume you mean the fiberglass, not electrical bonding - as though the hull is detaching from the skeleton. If this is right, of course it can be addressed, but my question would be why? Was your boat sailed especially hard for years and years, with lots of pounding? Or was she carrying some defect in construction, such as poor glass work in these areas, for whatever reason? Sorry I am not helping much on the rudder, except I would say to expect a big variation in knock response around the post, just by virtue of the post itself. I know there's a drawing for my rudder that shows the structure partially - this 411 dwg might apply to your 47, or there may be one for your boat too.

Fair Winds, and Good Luck sorting these issues,

Geoff, Corazon, 411 #41

Hello!
I am not sure about the 47 but on our 41/022 the leading edge of the rudder is indeed hollow since it is made of a stainless steel sheet screwed on the front part of the rudder and hiding hinges and rudder stock. Please see picture below taken during osmosis treatment.
Regards, and good luck for your hull repairs.
Philippe

Mark:

I would be more distressed about the loss of bonding between hull and cross members - when you say bonding, I assume you mean the fiberglass, not electrical bonding - as though the hull is detaching from the skeleton. If this is right, of course it can be addressed, but my question would be why? Was your boat sailed especially hard for years and years, with lots of pounding? Or was she carrying some defect in construction, such as poor glass work in these areas, for whatever reason? Sorry I am not helping much on the rudder, except I would say to expect a big variation in knock response around the post, just by virtue of the post itself. I know there's a drawing for my rudder that shows the structure partially - this 411 dwg might apply to your 47, or there may be one for your boat too.

Fair Winds, and Good Luck sorting these issues,

Geoff, Corazon, 411 #41

Hi Geoff

Many thanks for your note. The bonding is indeed the fibreglass bonding between the hull and skeleton. The boat is out of the water, the keel and mast are being removed and all joints are being ground out and reglassed - not a job for the faint-hearted.

I have owned Outrageous for 6 years and we certainly push her pretty hard but we always have gone by the adage "the crew will break before the boat does"! One particularly wild ride was due south from the Fastnet in teh Fal 500 rage in 6-7 on a close reach under full sailthroughout the night. The boat flew all night and we took 4 hours out of all the following boats in a 10 hour run.
In any case the work is being undertaken by Osmotech in hamble and we are hiopeful of being back in teh water for teh Torbay Triangle 2-handed race starting mid June!

Regards
mark

Hello! I am not sure about the 47 but on our 41/022 the leading edge of the rudder is indeed hollow since it is made of a stainless steel sheet screwed on the front part of the rudder and hiding hinges and rudder stock. Please see picture below taken during osmosis treatment. Regards, and good luck for your hull repairs. Philippe

Dear Philippe

Thanks, that is reallyreally helpful. On this basis I think I can save a lot of time and unnecessary work
Regards

mark

Cant help with the rudder, but had similar problems with delimaination of frames/stringers/longitudinals from the hull around the keel area.  Eventually concluded that somebody was over enthusiastic when peeling for an osmosis treatment and took off too much between the keel sump and hull; ie too tight a radius.  Over time this started to work and the keel sump, skin and framing all started to seperate from each other.

Has all been fixed now, but it certainly wasnt the most enjoyable time of owning a yacht! Hope ti all goes well.

Hi Geoff Many thanks for your note. The bonding is indeed the fibreglass bonding between the hull and skeleton. The boat is out of the water, the keel and mast are being removed and all joints are being ground out and reglassed - not a job for the faint-hearted. I have owned Outrageous for 6 years and we certainly push her pretty hard but we always have gone by the adage "the crew will break before the boat does"! One particularly wild ride was due south from the Fastnet in teh Fal 500 rage in 6-7 on a close reach under full sailthroughout the night. The boat flew all night and we took 4 hours out of all the following boats in a 10 hour run. In any case the work is being undertaken by Osmotech in hamble and we are hiopeful of being back in teh water for teh Torbay Triangle 2-handed race starting mid June! Regards mark

I had a similar experience with my 47/16. When replacing the deck in 2010 I observed that the deck, in the area of the higher shroud left was up level of almost half an inch. The rods in the cabin were ok, but the fiberglass arch connected to the keel was delaminated. The repair was made properly; it took more time in disassembling the inside wood than doing the job itself by drawing a temporary shroud between the mast base and the hull plate base of the higher shroud.
I would reccommend to observe from the outside the deck of the 47 ( and many other boats) in the area of the shrouds. There are so many beautiful curves in the s&s designs and you might be confused.
I think that some people, as myself, have been cruising with the same problem for long and I still see at the dock boats with a bulge on the deck.....
Secondly, do not exagerate with the pressure on the sails ( and the tension of the higher shrouds)....

I had a similar experience with my 47/16. When replacing the deck in 2010 I observed that the deck, in the area of the higher shroud left was up level of almost half an inch. The rods in the cabin were ok, but the fiberglass arch connected to the keel was delaminated. The repair was made properly; it took more time in disassembling the inside wood than doing the job itself by drawing a temporary shroud between the mast base and the hull plate base of the higher shroud. I would reccommend to observe from the outside the deck of the 47 ( and many other boats) in the area of the shrouds. There are so many beautiful curves in the s&s designs and you might be confused. I think that some people, as myself, have been cruising with the same problem for long and I still see at the dock boats with a bulge on the deck..... Secondly, do not exagerate with the pressure on the sails ( and the tension of the higher shrouds)....

Dear Matteo45 and Lars,

Could you please descirbe the repair. I have been looking a little bit ón my 47 Cygnus Pena # 20 and might have to face the same thing.
Thanks very much
Rgds
Carsten