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S&S Swan General - What is a transformer in Europe?

24 April 2009 - 17:34 #1 Post Reply
What is a transformer in Europe? Hello All: What do I need to have to plug into shore power at a marina in Europe? Presently I plug the electric cable below into my shore power source (USA). I was told I need a 'transformer' for Europe. What does a transformer look like? Where do I acquire one? How much will it cost? Anything special for me to worry about with my 120volt system? I look forward to your input. Cheers, Milo s/v The Last of the Normal People Swan 047(048)

24 April 2009 - 17:34

Post Reply

milo

Join Date: 26 March 2008
Posts: 69

What is a transformer in Europe?

Hello All:

What do I need to have to plug into shore power at a marina in Europe? Presently I plug the electric cable below into my shore power source (USA). I was told I need a 'transformer' for Europe.

What does a transformer look like? Where do I acquire one? How much will it cost? Anything special for me to worry about with my 120volt system?

I look forward to your input.

Cheers,

Milo

s/v The Last of the Normal People

Swan 047(048)

24 April 2009 - 19:53 #2 Post Reply
Mike St. John Join Date: 03 March 2007 Posts: 241
Hi Milo, I think you are looking for a transformer to convert 240V (Europe) to 110V (NA) which is probably what your system is. Your battery charger etc unless they are adjustable are set to accept 110 V. If they are adjustable...my battery charger is you just shift them to 240. All your power tools from the US run on 110. What I do is charge the batteries using 240 and then using a 120 voltage inverter (12 to 120) run my NA tools etc... If you have hard wired 120V gear e.g. microwave etc... this does not work unless you wire them to your inverter. You could also shift out your 110 hardwired stuff to 240. Not sure if the boats wiring will hand this i.e. electrical panel and wiring. There must be others to answer this.. Hope this helps Mike Storm Svale..

24 April 2009 - 20:51 #3 Post Reply
jayne Join Date: 05 February 2007 Posts: 102
Hi Mike, Milo's idea sounds great, and we have another one, as the situation in Europe can create REAL issues depending on where you are. In Italy for example, there is a habit of unplugging peoples shore power for various reasons, and since there are no polarity standards here, they can blow out your battery charger if it gets plugged back in to another plug with the wrong polarity and you are are not on board. (luckily had been, but could have been a disaster so addressed this immediately) have resolved the problem with a Toroidal transformer which I can strongly suggest! it takes care of this problem completely, as long as you don't overload it with 110V appliances while the 110 charger is using it(well that depends on it's capacity of course). it also works cool instead of hot which is a real plus. truly feel it is one of the most important things to invest in so that you can get a good nights sleep on Euro shore power....If you go on the web searching Toroidal Transformers, there are a great list of suppliers. sure you know the plug is also different, and can be of different sizes on shore so good to have adapters around. Good Luck, and let me know what you decide. are you heading over soon? Cheers, Jayne Aorangi 47/047

25 April 2009 - 10:10 #4 Post Reply
Jyrki Join Date: 31 January 2007 Posts: 52
Hello, Milo! I think isolation transformer would be a good solution. This page explains it clearly: http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/ITR040182040-D-cENa.pdf Best wishes, Jyrki

25 April 2009 - 11:34 #5 Post Reply
Milo Here some information about European shore power EU nominal standard voltage is 230 V, and US voltage assumed to be half of that. In practice the AC voltages vary depending on the local circumstances, the accepted variation is between 207 and 244 V, (in the US between 104 and 122 V). If the voltage is outside these limits trouble can be expected. Your yacht is likely to be wired and equipped for 115 V 60 Hz. If you want to connect to 230 V 50 Hz shore power, you could add a 230 V inlet with a transformer reducing the voltage from 230 to 115 V, then you can use the on-board system at 115 V as before, and retain the 115 V inlet - handy if you go back to the States. In Europe there are two important differences which need to be considered. The European frequency is 50 Hz, and the transformer does not change this, so you have to find out which of your electrical equipment can accept this frequency, and which not, and not use the latter with 230 V shore power. 115 V microwave ovens do normally not accept 50 Hz, and there may also be other equipment, on board, consult their manuals. If you have an inverter it produces 60 Hz AC as before. The other issue is that in some European countries there can be polarity problems, and your 230 V system should better have an alarm for this, because wrong polarity can be lethal or destroy equipment. The help of a qualified marine electrician is needed with the installation, but there may also be problems later on when you first arrive in a new country. If you get a polarity warning and the shore power plug has two pins and can be inserted both ways, first try to turn the plug around the other way and check if the polarity alarm still warns. If that is the case, unplug the shore power immediately and get a marine electrician to sort it out. The same refers if there are three pins and you get a polarity alarm. Today European shore power installations are required to have GFCI:s, and the same refers in the US. A GFCI is a Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor, and it is set to automatically switch off the current so rapidly and at such a low level that human beings are protected if accidently touching hot and ground at the same time. If you do not have a GFCI it is strongly recommended that you consider adding one. It should be noted, however, that this device does not protect you if you touch the hot and negative line at the same time. Some AC equipment may also leak so much that this trips the GFCI, the remedy then is to eliminate the leak, not to disable the GFCI. You can find information on the internet about these things Lars

25 April 2009 - 11:34

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The Professor

Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547

Milo

Here some information about European shore power

EU nominal standard voltage is 230 V, and US voltage assumed to be half of that. In practice the AC voltages vary depending on the local circumstances, the accepted variation is between 207 and 244 V, (in the US between 104 and 122 V). If the voltage is outside these limits trouble can be expected.

Your yacht is likely to be wired and equipped for 115 V 60 Hz.

If you want to connect to 230 V 50 Hz shore power, you could add a 230 V inlet with a transformer reducing the voltage from 230 to 115 V, then you can use the on-board system at 115 V as before, and retain the 115 V inlet - handy if you go back to the States.

In Europe there are two important differences which need to be considered.

The European frequency is 50 Hz, and the transformer does not change this, so you have to find out which of your electrical equipment can accept this frequency, and which not, and not use the latter with 230 V shore power. 115 V microwave ovens do normally not accept 50 Hz, and there may also be other equipment, on board, consult their manuals. If you have an inverter it produces 60 Hz AC as before.

The other issue is that in some European countries there can be polarity problems, and your 230 V system should better have an alarm for this, because wrong polarity can be lethal or destroy equipment. The help of a qualified marine electrician is needed with the installation, but there may also be problems later on when you first arrive in a new country. If you get a polarity warning and the shore power plug has two pins and can be inserted both ways, first try to turn the plug around the other way and check if the polarity alarm still warns. If that is the case, unplug the shore power immediately and get a marine electrician to sort it out. The same refers if there are three pins and you get a polarity alarm.

Today European shore power installations are required to have GFCI:s, and the same refers in the US. A GFCI is a Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor, and it is set to automatically switch off the current so rapidly and at such a low level that human beings are protected if accidently touching hot and ground at the same time. If you do not have a GFCI it is strongly recommended that you consider adding one.

It should be noted, however, that this device does not protect you if you touch the hot and negative line at the same time. Some AC equipment may also leak so much that this trips the GFCI, the remedy then is to eliminate the leak, not to disable the GFCI.

You can find information on the internet about these things

Lars

26 April 2009 - 17:13 #6 Post Reply
danielefua Join Date: 30 January 2007 Posts: 462
Milo, as previously suggested, I believe that an isolation transformer is the best solution to a number of possible problems, some very dangerous also for people sailing in same-voltage-as-home places. The main problem of traditional transformers is weight: a 3500VA toroidal transformer weights approximately 25 kg. This problem was apparently solved by the introduction of the switching technology which not only reduces the weight to one third but also solves the issue of frequency: the frequency of the output is independent from the input and can be tuned to whatever needed. Of course there is a drawback: cost... but not as bad as one could imagine. Daniel, 411-004

27 April 2009 - 05:57 #7 Post Reply
Wow! After reading that lot I imagined every sailor in Europe is either freezing or fried. How does anyone survive that maze of tricks and tidbits? You are all a wonderful source of information with some very thought provoking comments. Keep in mind I am not smart with electricity (or electrickery), so I am taking time to digest your helpful data. Let me pull just two concepts out of the mix. First (from Lars), if I have the budget, it would seem prudent to just go ahead and install the "230volt inlet with a transformer reducing the voltage from 230 to 115V." We do not have a microwave and the only hard wired items are the normal lights, fans, navigation, and communication equipment. We do have an inverter/charger (by Magnum). We would have a marine electrician do the install and be sure to add a polarity alarm. We would also add a GFCI...at the 230volt inlet....yes? Next, it seems the transformer, located on the boat, would be an Isolation transformer, and the Toroidal Transformer is a good type of isolation transformer. How am I doing? Milo

27 April 2009 - 05:57

Post Reply

milo

Join Date: 26 March 2008
Posts: 69

Wow!

After reading that lot I imagined every sailor in Europe is either freezing or fried. How does anyone survive that maze of tricks and tidbits? You are all a wonderful source of information with some very thought provoking comments.

Keep in mind I am not smart with electricity (or electrickery), so I am taking time to digest your helpful data. Let me pull just two concepts out of the mix.

First (from Lars), if I have the budget, it would seem prudent to just go ahead and install the "230volt inlet with a transformer reducing the voltage from 230 to 115V." We do not have a microwave and the only hard wired items are the normal lights, fans, navigation, and communication equipment. We do have an inverter/charger (by Magnum). We would have a marine electrician do the install and be sure to add a polarity alarm. We would also add a GFCI...at the 230volt inlet....yes?

Next, it seems the transformer, located on the boat, would be an Isolation transformer, and the Toroidal Transformer is a good type of isolation transformer.

How am I doing?

Milo

27 April 2009 - 08:45 #8 Post Reply
Milo With an isolation transformer no polarity alarm is needed, but there is another issue - if the boat is on shore and you want to use shore power on board, a separate ground line must be arranged, because the water is not providing it. You need a small 230 V AC switchboard with main switch and fuses, the GFCI could be included there. Suggest you check what your charger/inverter thinks of 50 Hz shore power input. If not acceptable you need a separate charger in Europe, unless the transformer is able to change the frequency. Lars

27 April 2009 - 08:45

Post Reply

The Professor

Join Date: 02 January 2008
Posts: 1547

Milo

With an isolation transformer no polarity alarm is needed, but there is another issue - if the boat is on shore and you want to use shore power on board, a separate ground line must be arranged, because the water is not providing it.

You need a small 230 V AC switchboard with main switch and fuses, the GFCI could be included there.

Suggest you check what your charger/inverter thinks of 50 Hz shore power input. If not acceptable you need a separate charger in Europe, unless the transformer is able to change the frequency.

Lars

27 April 2009 - 10:07 #9 Post Reply
mike st. john Join Date: 03 March 2007 Posts: 241
Milo How long are you staying in Europe?? If only for a season or two major changes may not be worthwhile. The approach I use...charge with the batteries 240 and run all gear off 12V is simple cheap, and power efficient. Every time you convert/ transform from 12 up or from 110-240 down you lose amps due to e.g. heat generation and inefficient conversion.. Conversion from 12V costs you, very important if you are on anchor or doing crossing of no import if you are tied to the dock. Anyway, pretty well every piece of gear you might want..microwave, coffee maker, blender (:-)) can be purchased for 12V allowing you to wire into the ships batteries. I am a firm believer in KISS. Keep things simple, less to fix.... The polarity issue I had not run across before... one to keep in mind. Cheers Mike

27 April 2009 - 12:40 #10 Post Reply
danielefua Join Date: 30 January 2007 Posts: 462
Milo, we probably all suggested more than needed! If you do not plan to have appliances using 110VAC and the only problem regards charging your 12VDC batteries, one easy solution is a new charger accepting 230VAC 50Hz or, even simpler and cheaper, an autotransformer with 230/115V taps. Not having motors to run it is very likely that the frequency issue (50/60Hz) is negligible. Moreover I would suggest to use the shore power strictly for the battery charger and, for safety, disconnect permanently (while abroad) the boat AC outlets. One thing to be sure of is that neutral AC side of your charger is not hardwired to the negative or the earth of the electric system of your boat. Daniel, 411-004

28 April 2009 - 18:44

#11

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philippe

Join Date: 16 February 2007
Posts: 199

Hello,

You have got so many informed comments and information. From me, please get a pic of an Isolationstransformator: The ITV 3,6MT. 3600W from Victron. It will manage your electric hysteria nicely and do the job itself for you. It is recommended specifically for sailors going back and forth over the pond. Its dimension is: 362x258x218. These are centimeter, mind you, not inches.

One more thing: this device will dramatically reduce the risk of galvanic current and prevent it from getting into your boat!

Cheers

Philippe (see pic hereunder)

19 May 2009 - 18:13 #12 Post Reply
Many thanks for all the input. We are currently on our way to Europe, so will let you know what we finished up doing after we have done it. :) Cheers, Milo

19 May 2009 - 18:13

#12

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milo

Join Date: 26 March 2008
Posts: 69

Many thanks for all the input. We are currently on our way to Europe, so will let you know what we finished up doing after we have done it. :)

Cheers,

Milo

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