411 babystay and running backstays
I wanted to see if anyone could tell me what size wire you use for the babystay, or if you use synthetic, and same question for the running backstays as well as where do you anchor these aft, and what rigging do you use for tensioning? I have a very small diameter wire babystay and have to replace the running backstays from scratch, the originals having been taken off. Any help or guidance will be appreciated, as always -

Thanks,
Geoff
Corazon
411
#41

The original specs (I quote from the sailplan) on the 411 are as follows:
Running backstays (2) 4mm dia 1x19 wire, Min. B.S. 3,360 lbs, length 12m
Staysailstay: 6mm dia 1x19 wire, Min. B.S. 7,300 lbs., length 11.6m
Staysailstay turnbuckle: one (1) Lewmar 510 (9/16") plus toggle Lewmar 513 (7/16") sliding on centerline track; Lewmar 513 (7/16") at upper end.

Few years ago I replaced them as original and used to keep the staysailstay on all the time; presently, after cursing at every tack, I decided I will replace the wire with a textile and set it up only when needed.

Daniel, 411-004

Daniel

Thanks for that information - I feel the same way about the babystay or staysail stay, it really does get in the way tacking, especially with the big genoa - so I would take the deck attachment aft to the mast and get it out of the way, but then the wire chafes against my nice white painted mast etc.

I want to have the set up correct for longer distance sailing, in case of heavy weather etc, as I hope to bring her to Europe and then Morocco for the Transat Classique - you did not say whether or not you used the running backstays? I think I am going to use synthetic ropes for the babystay and the runners, as they are so strong and lightweight now - the downside is the UV degradation, but on the upside, they are easier to handle than wire, and don't cause as much coincidental cosmetic damage as the wire might when knocking about slack....thanks once more for your help as always - Geoff

Hi Geoff,
sorry I forgot about the runners. Yes I do have them and presently they are as in the original plan. The connection at the mast is included in two ss plates under the spreaders where the lower diagonal (D1) shrouds are attached. The runners are attached via a fork with a pin. I am pretty sure that you will find the same plates also on your mast.
My runners are tensioned by a 4-way tackle (hardly sufficient).
I am going to use a synthetic for the staysail stay but I am not as sure about the runners.

Daniel, 411-004

Geoff, I have converted my runners into spectra as it does no damage to he sail and is much lighter. I use a 4/1 tackel to tighten at S/S loop on top of the big sheet turning blocks.

When the runners are not in use (which is most of the time) I fix to a D ring which we welded to the bottle screw fixings at shroud base.

I have covered the baby stay wire with braided rope. Strip inner core and feed wire in wire to replace. Much kinder than just wire on the sail. In the area where I sail (North sea) we frequently get a short but steep chop which can cause the mast to flex. So the baby stay and runners are used.  Force 5/6   

The original specs (I quote from the sailplan) on the 411 are as follows:
Running backstays (2) 4mm dia 1x19 wire, Min. B.S. 3,360 lbs, length 12m
Staysailstay: 6mm dia 1x19 wire, Min. B.S. 7,300 lbs., length 11.6m
Staysailstay turnbuckle: one (1) Lewmar 510 (9/16") plus toggle Lewmar 513 (7/16") sliding on centerline track; Lewmar 513 (7/16") at upper end.

Few years ago I replaced them as original and used to keep the staysailstay on all the time; presently, after cursing at every tack, I decided I will replace the wire with a textile and set it up only when needed.

Daniel, 411-004

Daniel did you scale the length of the runners off the plan, or is that from actual, and is it the full length, pin to ring, or the length shortened to make room for the 4:1 gear?

Geoff,
I merely replicated the original cited length which is pin-to-ring. It seems ok because when slack it leaves the ring few inches above the deck while the 4:1 gear is mostly laying on the deck.

Daniel, 411-04

Geoff,
I merely replicated the original cited length which is pin-to-ring. It seems ok because when slack it leaves the ring few inches above the deck while the 4:1 gear is mostly laying on the deck.

Daniel, 411-04

So to make sure I understand - the wire section, without the 4:1, is 12m long? About how much length is left for the 4:1 gear (let's say when taut)? Are you attached to the fitting on top of the double turning blocks? Sorry to ask so many q's, but I want to buy this material tomorrow and fly it in for next week's launch -

Thanks for your help, as a;ways -

Geoff

Geoff,
yes, according to the rigger who made the job, the wire length is 12m eye-to-eye and, yes, I use the fitting on top of the double turning block.
When taut, the distance of the lower eye from the fitting is probably something around 80cm. I cannot be more specific but there is enough room for the 4:1 gear in its shortest position.
I think that the critical point is the position of the lower eye while slack. I suggest that you cut the wire a bit longer and, after fixing the upper end of the runner, cut and fit a norseman eye in the lower end in order to place it at the right height from the deck.

Daniel, 411-004.

Daniel

Thanks so much - that is a great help and I am off to get it all together.

Fair winds and following seas -

Geoff