Toe rail 411
Hello all -

My boat has the typical spots of corrosion all over the toe rail but altogether that is not too bad - the real problem is some previous owner painted the rail. There is some kind of prime coat on it (perhaps the same time the hull was painted, the rail got blasted and primed). The primer is stuck on there very well - but the aluminum paint over it is failing to adhere all over, so she is spotty and looks like hell.

I saw the previous posts about Nautors not being able to provide replacements for these extrusions at present (but was not sure if that comment was directed to one size/style, or all of them), as well as other forum entries on how to address at least the galvanic corrosion. Since i am determined to do something, I thought i would ask once more about the replacement extrusions availability (and my yard will contact Nautors directly to see if he gets any help). When I googled toe rail Swan 1979 I saw an ad for a 1979 441 Holland design for sale, which had been in an accident. The ad went on to describe a repair which included the replacement of the starboard toe rail, gotten from Nautors (I think the ad said this was in 2008). I also saw many aluminum extrusion houses advertising great capability, which made me wonder if I could find the house that did these originally and contact them directly, or short of that, a house that really could knock one off 100% correctly - so if anyone knows an answer to those questions, please let me know.

My other option is to try and remove the aluminum paint by hand, then do a better prep job, make sure my topcoat is a match in terms of type to the primer (if I can), then finally apply a good matched topcoat to a well prepped surface - I know it won't be as good as new, but it might look ok for 3-4 years and be less expensive to get done, although my yard here keeps telling me it won't be that bad and a good paint job might cost as much - I find that hard to believe (I did share the comments about the mastic, the bolting sometimes getting glassed over, etc and this being a big job).

Lars has made a previous note about the mastic under the rail making it hard to remove even once the hardware was all out....if you can elaborate at all Lars, that would help - such as - is it so hard to get off there that you might start ripping up the fiberglass trying to get it off? Any other tips or advice would be appreciated as always.

Anyway, thanks and Fair Winds to all,

Geoff
Corazon
Swan 411 #41

Dear Geoff

Lars will be more sharp on this, but as far as I know Nautor was able to provide spare toe rail untill June 2010, unfortunately non after that date. They still have the original drawings and mould but non the people who could make them.
Maybe you could contact Sixten Sandstrom, I think he may be of help.
Will send you his address

Fair winds!

Matteo (38/067 Only You)

Dear Geoff, I have a similar problem on my 48' ( 1975) . From my experience the job is really dificult. I have tried - just to check - to remove some bolts from the inside and believe me it is something almost impossible , in particular in the areas where you have almost to dismount the boat to access the nuts.

The only option I have heard is to cut the toerail , leaving in place the alluminium plate which stays on the deck , then cover it with fiberglass to avoid future corrosion and built a new teck toerail on top of it.
I am currently investigating about this option and I will keep you/the forum community updated on any developments

kind regards

Sergio
Clarion of Skye 042/48

Dear Sergio,

Peppe dismantled the toerail on his 65/021 (Shirlaf) and is getting a new teak one, the same job Fabio did onboard Coast to Coast (65/010).

I suggested Peppe to talk to Lars or Sixten, as the original toerail is structural, and maybe they can suggest to reinforce the boat underneath the teak new toerail. Anyway, if you want to go and see the boat she's ashore in Naples, will sen Peppe's details.

It took two people two days to get rid of the original toe rail, but they could not reach some bolts and have to cut them...

Fair Winds

Matteo (38/067 Only You)

Geoff

The toerails for Swans are produced with extrusion dies which are the property of the yard. This means the extruder can not sell any extrusions to other parties without the consent of the yard.

The extruder is not willing to do one or two extrusions, instead the minimum is likely to be at least a mile or more. This is probably the reason for the yard being unwilling to keep such an amount in stock.

Referring to removal - if the mastic is holding the rail tightly you should not use brute force but a thin knife or similar inserted along the edges. This will slow removal considerably.

Matteo suggested the rails are structural - I would say they contribute to the hull stiffness, but are not absolutely necessary. If the horizontal flange is left in place, this is quite sufficient, but if also the flange is removed it is important that the thru bolting has the same spacing as before.

If the wooden rail has about the same height the bigger cross section is likely to restore part of the lost stiffness.

Lars

Hi Geoff
I had mentioned in one of the previous threads. It is possible to cold anodize a toerail. The rail will need to be prepared by removing all paint. The cold anodizing is paint like and is applied with a brush. It is not as good as the formal method but it is much better than paint. It will last 5 years plus. Please google for more information.

David (411/33)

I wonder if the same rail section is shared among several sizes of our boats from 37 to 44 feet - if so, we might easily have enough people with issues to right now or on the horizon to make a committment to a 'negotiated' mill run.  Lars: do you happen to know this about the boats, do many or some sizes share the same toe rail?

Unless I know I can replace the extrusion without breaking the bank or the boat, I don't think I am going to take my rail off, and hope for a good strong job, with all that risk and cost for a cosmetic matter.  I like the idea of the chemical conversion coating (cold anodizing), the only impediment to me getting that done is, as noted in my first post, the primer is so tightly bound to the toe rail, getting it back down to bare might be a real chore.  Then again, building it up so it will last will be a chore also.  An experiement is called for - will try to strip 5 feet and paint 5 feet and see how it goes.....

Thanks to everyone for the help and input, as always -

Geoff

Geoff

You are right, the section you have is used from the last 37:s and up to Swan 48, Sergio pls confirm. This section is 73 mm high measured vertically on the outside.

The bigger section used on the 65 is 90 mm high.

Would appreciate more specific info about where to find cold anodization, had no success with Google.

Lars

dear members
The details for 'cold anodising'!

Alocrom is a Chromate conversion coating chemically applied to aluminium, which provides corrosion protection. It is also applied prior to painting or powder coating and is used when protection and/or electrical conductivity is required.

It is suitable for all types of aluminium alloy (N.B. Should not come into contact with foodstuffs) including castings and high silicon alloys which can be problematical to anodise.

Good electrical conductivity, corrosion resistance and good paint key are all benefits gained by Chromate Conversion.

Chromate conversion coatings currently carried out by us.

Alocrom 1000

Alocrom 1000 produces protective coatings on aluminium and its alloys without significantly changing the appearance of the aluminium surface. Alocrom 1000 is approved to MIL-C-5541 (Class 3) and is recommended where a very low surface electrical resistance is required.

Alocrom 1200

Alocrom 1200 is ideal for coating all types of aluminium and aluminium alloys including high silicon pressure die-castings. It should be used on aluminium wherever maximum corrosion resistance and when electrical conductivity is required. It is suitable for components that are to be painted or left unpainted. It gives a protective golden coloured coating which is, like anodising, integral with the aluminium.

Light to medium Alocrom coatings have minimal effect on surface electrical resistance.

Alocrom 1200 is approved to DEF-STAN 03-18 and to MIL-C-5541C and MIL-C-81706.

This process is also known as Alchromate, Bonderite 710 & Alodine 1200, .

Hi all, it is nice to see that I am not the only one suffering from the painted toe rail:) In my case the original anodized finish is still intact under the paint (some spots of corrosion) and it seems that no primer has been used. I am now wondering what is the best way to remove the paint with as little damage as possible. I tried to scrape the paint from a small area with a knife. It came off pretty easily so I think it might be possible to get rid of most of the paint mechanically. I have also been told to use chemical paint removers, but I am afraid that it might damage the awlgripped areas near the rail. So my question is, has anyone done this job and what would you suggest is the best method removing the paint?

Kind regards,

Tuomas (Grey Lady 38/091)

Hi all -

Somehow my text got lost when I posted the pictures - Nautors has accepted our order of new toe rails - they sent back photos of the rail (not sure if these are old pics, or they actually had a set done in stock), and a nice worksheet detailing the job of replacement. 

Just thought those of you who wanted to do this job might want to know, and as Lars pointed out earlier, this rail goes on a lot of boats, so maybe strike now while the iron is hot, who knows how long Nautors will do this?  They seemed to stop once already, next time might be for good.

Looking forward to meeting some of you at Matteo's dinner in NYC, meantime merry Christmas and happy holidays to all -

Best regards,

Geoff

Corazon 411 #41

Dear All,

with kind permission of 65/001 Peak's owner, Pieter Houting, we are posting on the "Maintenance" section some pictures of the job he's doing on his boat, a few have been posted today and some will follow soon. You could look at the toerail change.

Fair winds!

Matteo (38/067 Only You)