Ground tackle, Swan 41,411

Dear all,

 I would be interested to know what ground tackle members are fitting to these boats for extended cruising to areas where anchoring becomes much more important. The problem with these boats is that they have very fine bows, and it is easy to end up bow heavy. I don't think Nautor considered anchoring very seriously as there was no provision in the original design for a bow mounted anchor, winch, and chain pipe.

   I have 35m of 10mm chain with 20m of warp. The main anchor is a 15kgm Bruce copy mounted on the bow roller. The winch is an old manual Goiot. The chain is all stored forward of the front bulkhead. There is an additional CQR anchor (15kgm) stowed on the deck just forward of the mast. I assume this was the original anchor supplied by Nautor.

I don't consider 35m of chain adequate. I would like 60m, and a 20kgm anchor (at least). However I am already too much bow down, and if I add all this extra weight right forward this will be worse.

 One option is to store the chain further aft, however it will then need to be fed out through the forehatch when required, with inevitable damage to the teak hatch trim.  I always like to have an anchor ready for immediate use. I think the best solution is to have a limited length of chain forward, and a further length in the bilges aft of the mast step (or even under the floor of the passage way to the aft compartment , what I call the dog kennel). This will need to be joined to the main length when it is required.

  What solutions have you long distance cuisers devised?

Cosmo Little (Trinket, 41/31)

Hi Cosmo,

we went with a 32kg Bügel anchor, 95m stainless chain (duplex steel), and a 1500W Lofrans electric windlass on our circumnavigation 2006-2009 with no issues on 47/013 VERA. The stainless chain selfstows very nicely in the forward bow locker. The anchor is on the heavy side, which is good. The chain was always long enough. I think 60m should be the minimum. Read STEVE DASHEW CRUISING ENZYKLOPEDIA. He recommends heavy anchor + long but light chain. I would consider a ROCNA 20-25 kg + 80m stainless chain for a 41. Make sure to buy Duplex steel if you are going stainless. Our chain dates from 2002 and is still spotless after 45k miles or so. An electric windlass is a no brainer. Manually you will be to lazy to reanchor even if you are not really happy with the spot or the holding. Go for 1000W. Lofrans is cheap, but did the job nicely. Yes, the gear is heavy and it pushes the bow down, but the greatest risk is to loose the boat do to bad holding in a less then ideal anchorage.

Best regards, Michael

Hi Cosmo,

I have a Swan 411 and carry a 45lb CQR plus a Fortress aluminium anchor, which I use as stern anchor. In addition I have an old Danforth, which came with the boat and which I have never used. The CQR has 60m of 10mm cable and a further 40m of multiplait. I have a Lofrans Progress II electric anchor winch. The anchor cable goes direct down into the chain locker. The anchor cable has to be carefully laid as it comes up otherwise it forms a mountain and collapses when heeled, which causes a tangle when heeled. I have fashioned a wooden plug to block off the hawse pipe when on longer passages. I suspect that any racing sailor would object to the weight up front and the pitching which that must cause, but I don't race and prefer the convenience.

Cheers

Anthony

Hello Cosmo,
We just returned from a road trip of New Zealand's South Island, and I saw your question. I share your concern about the weight, and that Nautor really didn't intend on it. That being said, we gave it a try and came up with a heavy, well balanced boat by the time we had loaded it with the solar panels, wind pilot, etc. in the aft end. Our anchor is a 27kg. Ultra from Turkey (wonderful anchor), and we use all chain of 10mm by 92 meters. Our windlass is an electric Lofrans. Before we loaded this gear,, we calculated the weight and placed the equivalent weight in men on the foredeck to check trim. No problem once the aft gear was installed. Like I said, we are heavy, but sail well in all kinds of sea (probably not as fast as we once were, but cruising is about going slow for long distance and preserving the gear, right?) Good luck with everything. It will work out.

Hi Cosmo.

On my 411 I have as Bower 45 Lb CQR attached to 50m of 10mm calibrated chain spliced to 50m multiplait. Lewmar V3 windlass with additonal chainstopper on deck. I also use a chain snuber when anchored.

My spare is a Fortress with 10m of 10mm chain and 50m of 35mm flat "Ankorline" on a reel. I am currently looking for a Rock Anchor.

I tried this winter a 25Kg Rocna, but I would have had to make a lot of changes to the stemhead roller etc to get it to work. They are very large for the weight. I might try fitting a 20Kg later. Very good anchors!!!     

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Last weekend I made a plywood template of a 20kgm rocna anchor from their clever downloadable paper pattern, and discovered it definitely will not fit. The problem is the centre support for the pulpit. I then borrowed a 20kgm claw type ( bruce copy) and this looked good, in fact I am now trying to find a 25kgm claw .  I will be ordering a 60m length of 10mm chain (galvanised) .  The installation of an electric anchor windlass I am still considering as it is a lot of work, with all the cables, relays, and switches that it would need. I have never been happy with the so called waterproof deck switches that are foot operated. Everone I have talked to seems to have had trouble with these.

  PS every anchor seems to be made in China these days, even the rocna!

Cosmo Little

Hi Cosmo,

in this case, I‘d also consider a German BÜGEL anchor 20-25kg. Steve Dashew used to be a great fan of the BRUCE type anchors, but always argued that these HAVE to be on the heavy side (above 40kg) to break through the surface layers of the ground. He than switched to ROCNA. We tried a ROCNA 30kg on our bow roller, but it did not fit. It would though with some alterations. In my opinion, the BÜGEL is the best anchor, safe the ROCNA, and it fits the Swans bow nicely + is not made in China. You can even get a beautiful executed stainless version from WASI in Germany. Galvanized chain is ok, if it self stows the full length in your anchor locker, alone, and with no help from any crew. Ours did not. We had seen solutions with a tube through the v-berth further aft, but that looked so ugly that we bought a stainless chain instead. This was definitely a good choice. I‘d also honestly recommend the electric windlass. Its one of the most important safety features on our boat. We had no trouble with our foot operated switches whatsoever. Make sure to spray them well with WETPROTECT.

Best regards, Michael 47/013 VERA

Hello;

I don't agree that the entire anchor line needs to be chain. The purpose of the chain is: 1) to cause the anchor to lay properly and bight into the bottom by controlling the shape of the catenary, and 2) to resist abrasion of the line.

On my Swan 41, I have a 35 lb Bruce anchor connected to 25m of 5/16" galv HS stud link chain and 100m of 1" nylon braid. It is connected to the foward buckhead by means of a pad-eye (which is only there to prevent loss). I also have a Lowrance electric 1000W windlass.

This configuration works very well in a variety of conditions and does not over-weight the bow.

I switched from the original CQR 20kg to a Rocna Vulcan 25kg this year. Before doing this I checked with a cardboard template if any modification to the bow setup is needed, and it did not look like that.

We have been quite happy with the CQR in France and Italy, but had issues in the Ionian islands in Greece, which caused me to check for an alternative. I spent quite a bit of time viewing the Youtube SV Panope videos, where btw CQR gets consistently bad ratings compared to more modern anchors. The Vulcan Rocna performs well in the tests and looked like it will fit. A more expensive alternative would have been the Ultra.

As expected the Rocna did not require any modification of the bow. Unlike the CQR it autolaunches, and it does not touch the furler drum when going down or being lifted. It is therefore possible to safely launch it with the remote control from the cockpit. 

The experience so far is good and this anchor is a considerable improvement compared to the previous one. It is however not a magic anchor that holds when dropped onto whatever ground - due diligence is still required, as expected.

Christian, 411/028 IF 

Hi Cosmo,

I lived aboard a 1973 Tartan 41, S&S design,  in 1992 and 1993 with time spent along the east coast of the USA, Bahamas and lesser and greater antilles.  I did not have a windlass and was MUCH younger then.  I used 20 feet of 3/8 inch chain and 250 feet of 3/4 3 strand braded line with an FX 37 (Fortress aluminum anchor).  Of all the anchors I have used, I liked that one the best for both setting and holding.  It is very light and as you say, keeping weight down in the bow is important.  The downside is that it is physically large and hard to stow.  

This may be a good solution for you.

Chris Mabel's Casse Tete 43/003

Hey, I don't think an absolutely good anchor has been invented yet, but we're getting close. Different anchors can be trusted differently in different circumstances. Below are my own experiences with anchors on our Swan 431 "CAID" boat.

I wouldn't put a CQR anchor on a Swan anymore, any the more modern ones offer much better holding power for the same weight. This was tested on our last boat before CAID.

In Italy and Croatia we used a 21kg Delta on the CAID. It worked very well in all conditions, even in +20m/s Bora winds. In the Baltic Sea the same anchor proved to be almost useless, as in Scandinavia the bottom is often soft mud and the Delta did not want to grab properly.

Next I bought a 25kg Rocna anchor, which was many times better in our conditions, but still proved to be unreliable in the end. It could not withstand the usual wind shifting during the night and our boat moved once up to 100m during the night. After this happened three times I decided to change the anchor once again. Damn.

Next we purchased a 27 kg ULTRA anchor and their Flip Swivel for the bow and it proved to have excellent holding power in all conditions in the Baltic. It would dig so deep in strong winds that you could never get it off by hand power again. Apparently the newer Swans and Hallberg-Rassy Yachts I've seen always seem to have the Ultra as a standard anchor.

I purchased a 16kg Ultra as a stern anchor and it has never failed in the Scandinavian "bow to island and anchor to stern" mooring either. The original Bruce of similar weight failed often to hold in similar previous moorings when the headwind shifted 90 degrees during the night. Of course, we have a spare 35kg genuine Bruce anchor stored under the helmsman's seat. Hopefully it will never have to be lowered into the sea.

BTW I would never put a cheap Chinese polished copy of a Bruce anchor on any boat, their shape is usually far from original and their quality is what it is. Your insurance guy can tell You more. But they do look shiny at the bow!