Tracks around the mast area
Dear friends,

Could anyone, perhaps Lars, tell me what these two short tracks around the mast area are for? Please see attached pic. Thanks//Philippe// 47/050

I think the tracks are for sheet blocks which would be used by a staysail set on the inner forestay. I had them on Black Tie too but never used a staysail. Gavin

Philippe and Gavin
Gavin is well informed, these tracks are for a staysail particularly if carried together with the genoa. A staysail is recommended in strong winds.
Best regards
Lars

Thanks a lot Gavin and Lars. AS it where, I have never used them and I was about to get rid of them in my efforts to simplify the deck configuration. WEll, I will keep them now just in case I wonder around the horn, which I have no intention of doing. I prefer Saint Tropez!

Philippe//47/050

This track is inner to the shrouds and can be used for an olympic jib on the forestay.
I do not use anymore the olympic jib, but it happens to me quite often, above 20 knots, to reef the genoa, fix the inner stay and hoist the staysail.
When close hauled, these sheets have to be inside the shrouds.
Under seaway staysail and one reef mainsail makes life very enjoyable.
In the Mediterranean, too!

(check the image on the swan 47 page for Grampus #16 )

The same tracks are on Mandate, but the locks which lock the slider are broken. Does anyone know where to get these?
What do you mean with a "stay sail"? Is it a kind of storm jib? Please some explanation.

Best regards,

Gerrit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staysail

Dear Gerrit
The slider stops were made by the yard. If the problem is in the spring action they can probably be repaired.
A number of deck gear manufacturers sell suitable plunger stops. The track width and thickness is required for choosing the right size.
Kind regards
Lars

Here is a staysail; in this case there is no close hauled and the sheets are led on the outside track; when more upwind I lead the sheets in the inner track.

Very pretty pictures!!

Thanks,

Geoff, Corazon, 411 #41

Here is a staysail; in this case there is no close hauled and the sheets are led on the outside track; when more upwind I lead the sheets in the inner track.

Dear Mateo 45
You show two pics of the staysail. Are you hoisting it flying or do you have a stay fastened to the mast? Do you use runners to relieve the tension on the mast where the staysail attaches?
Thank you!

-Dear Geoff, thank you, the merit for the photos belongs to Matteo Salamon, at the 2010Rolex Cup.

Thank you Mr. Canon 5D!

:-)

Fair winds!

matteo (38/067 Only You)

Dear Peter, I enclose the link for the sail plan of the 47,
http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.it/2011/07/design-2201-swan-47.html
You can see that runners are standard, as well as a removable inner forestay.
Apart from day sailing, I normally cruise and I have always the inner stay rigged and a bag on the bridge with the staysail hanked to, so that there is really very little fuss for hoisting it.
I am used to tension lightly the windward runner, but it is really for peace of mind, there is very little pumping from the mast. I have an electric furler for the genoa and I do not have problems in tacking when cruising with the inner forestay installed.
I believe that the boat is a sloop and not a cutter, anyway I have often thought to install a fix furling gear for this sail, or, alternatively, a movable furling system with a torsion luff similar to the one for code 0's. Anyway my staysail with hanks is still perfect, it is a secure system, and I prefer not to have further costs. The effort to do for hoisting is minimal, and the bag left on the deck is not a big nuisance .
Thank you

It could be added that the Swan 47 has a recessed staysail lever box in the foredeck, enabling quick setting up or removal of the stay.
The two wooden battens on the first picture above provide a stowage recess for the turnbuckle at its lower end, and the stay is tensioned in stowed position over a "half moon" on the side of the mast with a small tackle. The camcleat aft of the battens is for the tackle.
Kind regards
Lars

It could be added that the Swan 47 has a recessed staysail lever box in the foredeck, enabling quick setting up or removal of the stay.
The two wooden battens on the first picture above provide a stowage recess for the turnbuckle at its lower end, and the stay is tensioned in stowed position over a "half moon" on the side of the mast with a small tackle. The camcleat aft of the battens is for the tackle.
Kind regards
Lars

Dear Philippe,
Ocean racing designers like Laurent Giles and Illingworth and Primrose have had a crucial influence on rig design.
The experimented with the cutter rig on large and even on the Junior Offshore Group off mini racers. For heavy seagoing conditions a cutter rig gives more power and reduces drag and healing angle.
My personal experience goes back to the sixties and seventies of last century. With "Gideon", an 18,5 ft IOR dinghy, I sailed to the Baltic and as far south as Torquay without an auxiliary engine.
We had the "working jib" and "stay sail" cutter rig and it is very suitable for quick changing, heavy conditions.
My Swan 37 has the same removable inner fore stay. For me it is permanent because of mast bend control as well.
See "THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF YACHT DESIGNERS" ISBN 0-393-04876-4, page 126 and 243.
With a 110% high aspect yib and the staysail you will beat any compatitor in a heavy upwind leg. Good luck

I agree totally, a high aspect ratio will increase the performance upwind and the sail will not bag. Please do not renounce to the inner forestay! :)

Same here! At the last local Swan Rendez vous we came in second boat for boat and overall. First was a modern Swan 45 sailed extremely well by a crackerjack crew.
Cygnus 040/12

Hi Lambertus and All,

Thank you very much indeed for your very informative input. I will NOT renounce my inner forestay, of course. However, I intend to replace the the wire: It is of about 7-8mm for the moment and I feel that it should be thicker/stronger. My QUESTION: shall I go for 9mm or all the way to 10mm? Many thanks in advance for any guidance.

Cheers//Philippe
(47/050)

For what it is worth: I sailed on a Swan 40/035, owned by Sundsmo, where the stays were thicker, heavier, than what the original plan prescribed. The story was, that the owner wanted heavier rigging. Because the loads on the rigging, mast and hull are cushioned by the elasticity of the rig and because in this case, the elasticity was less, the hull had caved in locally where the chainplates are. Very pronounced! I advise to reconsider increasing the size of your rigging.

Hi Philippe, I agree totally with Peter, my opinion is that the inner forestay is more than well proportioned.
The fore and aft stays, together with the shrouds, have the role of stiffening the structure of the mast, the destiny of the inner forestay is to be hanked to the staysail, and to have enough tension so that the luff of the sail be straight enough.
The runners, in case of heavy sea, may prevent pumping of the mast, although, quite frankly, the mast of the 47 has such a big section that I never observed any pumping with seas.
Nor I have ever observed a bending of the mast with effects on luff of the main sail.
I would suggest you, in case you really want to go for a change, to consider a PBO or other fiber, with a breaking point, for safety, higher than the breaking point of the actual 7mm wire.
Why then? I usually leave my inner forestay rigged, and one of the reasons is, also, that the system of fixing the stay through the half moon aluminum plate and the pull on deck abaft the mast base is very awkward: the stay close to the mast stay loose in windy weather and is very noisy. I think that a stay in textile, being more flexible and elastic, will be not so awkward to be fixed.
Maybe some people will consider this a too much futile reason..
I am not at all an expert in rigging, but I believe that the dimensions of the rigging of the swan 47 is perfect and should not be changed. There is only one exception that is over dimensioned IMHO, and this is the mast, which is too heavy, needs a lot of lead in the keel to counterbalance it, and gives a lot of stresses to the boat and a bad rolling when there is little wind. Anyway some people would surely like this, they would feel themselves much more secure in this way ;)....
Fair winds,
Matteo
Grampus II 47/016